tv Piers Morgan Tonight CNN February 8, 2011 3:00am-4:00am EST
tonight witnesses to revolution. do you have a name for this? >> yes, revolution. >> it's a revolution. will egypt's revolves. what does it mean for america? my primetime exclusive with queen noor. a daring report that covers one of the mousse dangerous. he's here tonight. and you've got aryana your
boardroom just got 20 times sexier. here to talk about that, i'm delighted to say is her majesty queen noor of jordan. thank you for coming. >> thank you. >> you are the first queen to be in my studio. i feel honored. >> my privilege. >> from your point of view, what do you think is happening? should we be encouraging this? should we be celebrating it? what do you feel? >> well, i think that there are -- we are passing through very interesting times. they're very challenging times, but they also present enormous opportunities.
i think that's what we should be focusing on. i think and hope and pray that's what would be the focus of different governments and people and parties in our region as a whole. how can they expand or develop dialogue in the first instance, for example, in egypt we're seeing the first dialogue with varies political parties, and i think that these -- this moment presents enormous, as i said challenges, but opportunities that should perhaps excite and mobilize all our resources. >> should somebody who lives in america and has never left the country, maybe, should they be worried? should they be scared? are there repercussions for the damage that could be damaging? or do you feel as an american this could be quite good for the world? revolution from the bottom up, not being done through military
means? >> i think what's happening in egypt, tunisia today, and perhaps elsewhere, these can be models for peaceful transition to more open, more accountable governance, and towards societies that offer more opportunities. social, economic, political for a cross-section of their people. i truly believe, and i have for 30 years, and i used to argue this in jordan as well, that to achieve true national security, which is the issue in the debate that's always proceed dominated in egypt and many other countries and has justified a multitude of policies, that you can't divorce that from human security. if you see your national security and your human security as one and the same thing, your people engaged, free and feeling a sense of investment in their own country, that is the way you achieve true national security. that is where america will find her strongest and most reliable
allies. >> what do you think are the greatest misconceptions in america to the middle east? >> oh, how long do you have? >> i've got all evening, your majesty. >> i doubt that. i doubt that. i think there is a tendency -- the united states is extremely polarized, not unlike some of the societies in the middle east that we're talking about right now, so depending on who you're watching on television, which cable news channel, you're getting very different kinds of analysis and perhaps projections of what this means for the future and for the united states. so i would say that the first and most important thing for people in this country to do is to really look for thoughtful analysis of what is taking place and to look for the areas in the center regard than listening to the extremes and allowing them to -- >> in terms of misconceptions, there must be things that annoy you. you must think you don't get these people.
what is -- >> i think there's a great deal of emphasis being placed by some who perhaps don't have as nuanced an understanding and maybe lack a great deal of understanding on the religious component in what is taking place in egypt today. there's been some very interesting polls from the region that has shown among arab youth a very interesting polls on their approach to confidence in governance, the media, in a free yew dishary, in elections held in their countries. those rates are fairly low from 50% down to 30% or 35% in confidence in the media, even 31% confidence in ever having access to affordable housing. these are the indicators that reflect the poverty and unemployment in some of the factors at play here.
on the other hand, some of the positive indicators are that in the 80-mispercent of these young people feel they have support from friends and family, and they also feel they have support from religious, and not religion as a political force seeking to take over and co-opt this pros, which is people yearning for freedom and a say in their futures. >> i heard newt gingrich tonight on cnn on john king saying some alarming things about the muslim brotherhood. he was saying they are dangerous, they want to kill americans. if they get into power, this will be extremely bad news. >> yes. well, i think that is this very polarizing approach to what is taking place in the middle east
that has dominated for a very long time, that assumes that anyone -- that any religious group is somehow dangerous and stream, whereas in fact most arabs, religion is important to most arabs, and most arabs are moderate, peaceful centrists, want everyone wanting what these people -- >> so do you think it's helpful -- >> the muslim brotherhood are one of the many groups that/points of view that need to come to the table, need to be part of the dilodge and the governance building process, but they're only one of a multitude of other groups. you see them on the streets. you see the images of christians protecting muslims at prayer. one of the most moving sites, and one that has done more to help i think promote what is a sense of real in our region in terms of interfaith dialogue and relations than any of the efforts that so many of us make in our daily lives to promote a
more accurate understanding of the role of religion. >> do you think it's unhelpful when senior politicians here say such inflammatory things? >> it's unhelpful. the extremes on both sides are very unhelpful. i think that there are enough people actually in this particular case, there seems to be people on both sides in this country, on all sides, including independents that are providing very nuanced and thoughtful -- i'm seeing it on most of the networks. that's not usually the case which a crisis like this eruption in the middle east. they are pausing, they are taking a moment to think it through, and they're supporting the president. they're supporting his -- >> do you know the president? >> i have met him on a number of occasions. >> what do you think of him? >> i think that he brought a new and fresh and open spirit to
washington, and i hope and pray that he's able to negotiate this very difficult town and all that it represents as a country. >> i was talking about president mubarak. you were talking about president obama. >> i'm sorry. i know the mubaraks. i've known him since he became president, obviously, and their family. in this particular case, when talking about a crisis in our region, i try to avoid talking about personalities. i don't think it's about the penalties. i think it's about the approach to governance. i think it's about the principles of an open, healthy, accountable state apparatus that can draw in people from all points of view, and in this case create a movement going forward.
egypt can be a model of a peaceful transition, i think. >> do you believe that any peaceful transition in a country can actually happen in reality if you turf out leaders after 30 years. he's been in many people's eyes pretty good to the west and pretty good allies. is that a sensible way to proceed, or do you think the sensible way is the way president obama seems to prefer, a gradual transition, where mu bake is allowed to stay for a while, everything calls down and leaves with some dignity and honor, which a lot of people in america thinks he's earned, even though he -- >> i personally think it's up to the egyptians. this is a relationship between the governing party and the people of egypt who represent a multitude of points of view. i think that what is absolutely critical here is that they all work for what is best for egypt. i think that if this is a long,
protracted struggle, no one will benefit, the country won't benefit and only the extreming will benefit, but i think if we see some concrete -- steps leading towards reform and the kemp -- and in fact only the president in egypt can initiate, perhaps the relationship between the president and the people and however the transition takes place will -- will actually -- that process will be less tense. but there's going to have to be some concrete steps, not cosmetic steps and not just rhetoric. they'll have to give some form to this as soon as possible. >> when we come back, i want to talk to you about royal weddings. you had a great one. later, i'll be interviewing one of the this country's most prominent astronauts, and asking him what he thinks of mark kelly's return to space as gabby
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call this toll-free number now. i'm back with her majesty. i didn't realize it's the 12th anniversary of your husband's death, a great king. >> i choose -- there's a special memory attached to today, but i choose to celebrate his life every day, including today. >> he was an extraordinary man. >> he was. he was a dedicated and compassionate, humble, as i tweeted today, champion of human security and peace and justice, and remains an inspiration for all of us in the family, as well as in our country and elsewhere. >> what would he have made of what's going on now, do you think? >> i would like to think that he he lived longer, that our region
would not be in quite the state it is today. i know that sounds -- that might sound absurd to many, but there were certain developments in the arab/israeli peace process that he, with all of his years, could have brought, because he had a special relationship with all the players, where perhaps things might not have gone off the rails as they did in the end of the '99 and the early naughts. and things went terribly off the rails where today we have a situation where there's no real peace process. it takes all the hope and optimism and the faith that we can muster in our region to continue to imagine how we might reverse the deterioration and move back to something like the arab peace plan, which provides the outlines for a real -- a real settlement that could be
enduring. >> your wedding to the king, i really read -- >> that's a happier memory. >> i think we should remember it, because it was voted one of the top five most glamorous weddings of all time. >> it was hardly glamorous. it was one of the simplest beddings. >> i think they were talking about you and your dress. >> he only gave me a month, an engagement period of a month. so i had a -- >> that's pressure. >> i had been traveling around the world working in the middle east. i worked in iran, the far east. i travel with a suit and a pair of jeans and a blazer, and i had a two-piece dress, which i gave to someone to commy. that basically was my wedding dress. i said, let's keep it simple. our country was struggling, it's a poor country, it was the late '70s, and a challenging period,
and it was a very simple wedding, but the world's press descended on this tiny little -- not so tiny, but not so large room in my mother-in-law's home where he exchanged our vows. one darkened of the room was all the press and popping bulbs. the rest was my husband, myself, my father and his family. it was just for me. >> it was an amazing day. it reminded me of grace kelly and prince rainier, and i knew princess diana as well. >> very different wedding. >> obviously in britain now, back in my home country, we're all preparing for this huge event, the royal wedding, prince william and kate. what do you make of that? >> i think that they're having found each other and having obviously already worked so hard too build a loving relationship is one of the happiest and most wonderful developments in a long time. i'm delighted.
>> you actually took over a lot of the work that diana was doing in relation to landmines. >> i got very involved in landmines, had been in jordan, which would been an sure, because landmines still proliferate in the middle east, some as far back as ward war ii, killing innocent people, destroying livestock and holding agricultural land hostage, but we've done a good job in jordan of demining. i then took it on a global level that worked with her. >> you knee diana? >> i wouldn't claimed to have known her very well, but they visited us in jordan. we spent a little time in -- >> what did you think of her? >> i thought what she did to bringing focus to issues, aids and the tab book that existed at that time, where people really felt that they weren't safe in
the presence of someone who might have contracted hiv, and the landmine issue that she made two key visits to landmine-infected countries. >> i remember it well. >> that had profound impact. getting more -- and enhancing the momentum that led to the passing ultimately of the ottawa treaty, which was ratified while my husband was fighting cancer in the mayo clinic. i write in my book "leap of faith" we were driving through the countryside in this vw bug, when the news came on the road about the landmine treaty coming into full force. there was a yippee, these shouts that echoed through outthe countryside. >> having been through this media frenzy, royal wedding, where you married a king, what advice would you give to young kate middleton, as she's about
to marry the future king of england? >> i wouldn't presume to give her any advice. she seems to be a very grounded young woman. i think the most important thing for both of them is follow their own instinct, not anyone else tell them what they should or shouldn't do, and remember the beth of what people say and the worst of what they say is neither the truth, it's somewhere in between. >> have you enjoyed being a queen? >> i as a young girl growing up during the kennedy admission, my father was his faa administrator, i dreamt of joining the peace corporation. sargent shriver was one of the my heroes with martin luther king. my husband offered me in our marriage the opportunity to do what i had hoped to do as a peace corps volunteer, which is to take what i had been
privileged to have as i was growing up, and i could have grown up in any country, but the privilege of education, of optimism, of a sense of possibility that are the privileges of growing up in the western world, if you will, and try to work with mime in another part of the world, learn from them, and give to them the best of what i had to offer. and try to promote understanding of both worlds. >> so in a funny way becoming a queen enabled you to live your dream? >> it did. >> on a great scale. >> basically -- i don't know if i articulated it very well, because i work with a lot of peace corps people that come to jordan. it's not like in marrying him i became a volunteer, but i became a public servant. what i wanted to do in the peace corps as a young woman, what i wanted most of all was to be a public servant. i felt being a public servant in
parts of the world that were not as fortunate as the one i grew up in would be a way of making me a meaningful life. >> your majesty it's been a real pleasure. >> thank you. >> thanks for coming in. when we come back, now he's here to tell us all about it. and later a former astronaut's words of wisdom for gabby giffords's husband as he prepares to return to space. [ male announcer ] nature is unique... pure... and also delicious. like nature valley. granola bars made with crunchy oats and pure honey. nature valley -- 100% natural. 100% delicious.
sudden four people were surrounding me. they were kidnapping me. i'm not a hero. i slept for 12 days. the heroes were in the streets. the heroes are the ones who went to the demonstrations. the heroes of the ones who sacrificed their lives. they were the ones beaten. the heroes were the ones arrested and exposed to dangers. i wasn't a hero. that was a marketing executive for google speaking on esqulipgs tv. he was released today after being held for nearly two weeks. the situation in kiro is calmer tonight, but what comes next? joining me is nick and fareed zakaria. nick, it was pretty dangerous there. what was it really like?
now that you're back, what can you tell us that you couldn't at the time? >> it was pretty intimidating to go out there and see these thugs sent from central casting carrying these clubs with nails embedded in them, but i frankly felt impair raced about the sympathy we western journalists were getting. at the end of the day it was the egyptians out there, those helping us and those simply pushing for democracy, getting none of the glory and take all of the risks. human rights watch a couple hours ago put out a record that they had counted 297 deaths. that's three times as many that died in the iranian democracy movement, almost as many that died in tiananmen. >> so you think the focus on journalists getting a little whacks was overdone? >> yes. if you have a blue passport, if
you're a foreigner there, you do have a certain elementf protection. by and large, when we were detained, we were not being tortured. egyptians were, nonstop. those egyptians who helped me in and out of tahrir square, they were taking far greater risks. >> look at the google executive. this is a guy who disappeared for nine days, i think. how even does that happen? even in a dictatorship, this is a guy who literally disappeared, nobody knew who he was. every egyptian knew exactly what had happened. the security services had picked him up, and he was incarcerated in some jail with no trial, no habeas corpus rights, nothing. that is the reality of egypt even today, even after all these protests, that the government can simply pick something up as high profile as that and just disappear with them. >> i thought extraordinary in the modern age they thought they
could get away with clubbing every journalist around until they left. even more extraordinary was it worked. i think most journalists feared there was more coming, and then there was an oddly calm day. fareed, let me ask you, in simp terms, what is your gut feeling about what is actually happening now? >> i think what's happening now, it's fascinating, the egyptian military, it's a military dictatorship in civilian garb, have decided they'll sacrifice mubarak, but they're going to outwait the protesters, outlast them. at the end of the day people have to get back to work, they have to make a livelihood, put food on the table. they will try to offer some set of cosmetic changes, a bit of openness, and hope that it all passes, hope that that allows for enough of a sham democracy,
that they can maintain power. and against that is the street, the egyptian people, and it will be a fascinating tussle, because nobody giving up that much power. they enormous privileges, but the street is very tired of that. >> talking to queen noor was fascinating. she's been steeped in the history for a long time through her marriage to the king. she was like we must be excited, along thinks a great revolution of young people saying we want something better in our lives. >> frankly i've been troubled with the way i've had so many comments on facebook and twitter saying democracy is great for americans, great for israels, but dangerous for egyptians. if egypt, the most populist
country in the world can move toward a democracy, it's going to be messy, real implication for israel and the middle east peace, but so much better than an autocrazy, and we should be rejoining in it. >> will we look back on him as a dictator, a benevolent dictator? a pretty good guy who was managing a very difficult situation? how do you think history will judge him? >> i think he'll probably be seen as a care taker. he looked after the shop pretty well, maintained security, maintained stability. in the last few years, he did something very industry, hardly pushed by the imf, because he needed loans. he started opening up the economy. tokeville once said the worst moment for a regime is when it starts to reform. when you start doing that, you open up eyes, you open up expectations, we talk about how facebook and twister were so important, but why were they?
the internet was not censored in egypt. that was a decision mubarak made, one i'm sure he rues now, and the syrians have not made that mistake, and north koreans have not made that mistake. he began a process of reform that ultimately yoef whelm him. >> nick, one of the most fascinating things tonight i thought, was newt gingrich has come out strongly against the muslim brotherhood. he said there's a total absolute misreading. the muslim brotherhood is a mortal enemy. they say so openly. what do you make of that? >> well, i mean, i think that people here misunderstand the muslim brotherhood to some extent. people lump it with al qaeda, they hate each other. i tend to think it would be a disaster if the muslim brotherhood were actually running egypt, but there's no indication that egyptians want it to run the country. there's every indication it
would get make 20% of the vote, maybe 25%, but that's democracy. and if it can compete and if if you will let the mayor -- then he'll have to get water through the pipes, he'll have to make things work. my bet is he won't and the party will do worse. >> fareed, the key question is has president obama made the right moves here? are we right to keep mubarak in palace for this as orderly as it can be transition, or as some senators are breaking ranks, and i speak to senator nelson on the show later, he makes the point that mu bake should go right now and number 2 should take over. what do you think? >> i think at the end of the day the administration is handling it roughly right. they made a few mistakes, but what they're trying to do is push a process of changes, but not one that's so fast or chaotic that it produces results we don't want.
if mubarak were to resign there's a fair point that the vice president doesn't take over, the speaker of parliament takes over who's a real loser, elections are triggered in two months. the only organized group are the muslim brotherhood. the liberal parties don't have time to organize. all the parties banned by mubarak which is non-religious once don't have time, so there's some case to be made for a somewhat more systematic orderly process. it's messy, and it leaves you in the unpalatable position of supporting mubarak temporarily, but i think indeed administration would be wary of a complete hectic move to open elections tomorrow. >> i've been to leave it there. sorry. nick, thank you so much for coming back. it's great to see you back in one piece. >> considering the alternative, it's great to be here. >> and fareed, thank you very much. coming up, why the white house is not going far enough to push out mu bake barrack.
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the senator joins me now. your position is markedly different from the white house. they bluff from what we're hearing is mubarak should hang around until the election. you believe he should go now. >> the arab street, i think you're finding that, no, they woman negotiate, but whatever happens, it's clearly in the interest that mubarak signal that in effect power is transferred so we can keep the situation stabilized. if it erupted, that's the worst of all possible words. >> but giving that omar suleiman, the vice president i think you believed would be best placed to take over, given that he's been at the right hand of mubarak for years now, some would argue that he's just motley to dastardly, isn't he?
>> no, but he's respected in the arab world, respected in the u.s. and clearly respected in the egyptian military. if we're looking for a caretaker that can keep thing in order, i think suleiman is the person. whether or not he would win in the elections, that's a different thing. he would be a good person in the interim. >> tell me this. should we carry on paying the aid to egypt? what is your position on that? also in relation to israel, what is your view of how we protect israel. >> well, that's two separate questions. the answer to the first one is
yes, we need to continue the aid, because to yank the aid is to just invite chaos. and that is not in anybody's interesting. and your second question with regard to israel, it's very important that now and a future government of egypt honor the 1977 peat treaty. that's one of the most important things to the security of israel, because that's all of israel's southern border. >> now, you're on the senate intelligence committee. i've got to put it to you, i think, that there seems to have a massive breakdowns? intelligence. no one seemed to see this crisis coming. why was that? >> well, they knew that problems were brewing. they just didn't know what was going to be the catalyst, the spark to cause the reaction, and that turned out to be tunisia, and nobody saw that was going to
be the catalyst. >> in terms of the way that this revolution is unfurling, both in tunisia and now in egypt, what do you think in terms of regime change going forward, senator? are we now seeing a newer, better way of revolution driven from the bottom up through the people than perhaps, you know, a revolution driven by the americans taking military into these countries? >> from north africa all the across the world of islam, it's a new day. it's not 30 years ago when mubarak took over, when sadat was assassinated. the people with all of the instant community -- communication are going to demand some kind of reform. in the muslim world it's been a bunch of autocratic governments,
so we are seeing change happen in front of our very eyes. >> finally, senator, can i ask you something completely different, but given that you're a former astronaut, and we were talking before we went live there about how you once crossed the atlantic in 17 minutes in a spacecraft, i was going to ask you about your thoughts of mark. the husband of congresswoman giffords, who has decided to go on with the mission in the hopes his wife will be there for the launch. what was your reaction as a fellow astronaut to that? >> i'm very proud he made the decision he did. i think it's the right decision. i know that he made that decision only after he saw his wife improving considerably, and feels like she encouraging him to do this. he's trained for this mission. the alpha magnetic spectrometer, which is going to help us determine the origins of the universe, he's trained for this
mission for a year and a half. he's a consummate professional, and when your colleague john king told me the other night he had said he fully expects gabby to be there at the kennedy space center for the launch, i think that's incredible. and if she recovers that quickly, then all i can say is hallelujah. >> i would second that. it would be a remarkable end to an extraordinary story. senator nelson, thanks for your time. >> thanks, piers. how much would you pay to read the huffington post? how about $315 million. we'll show you what it means to you.
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gaue grmatains heyesy.rc g the big breaking business news today, aol is paying $350 million for "the huffington post." the news broke with a tweet by ariana huffington. here for more on the deal, editor and chief of "the huffington post" ariana huffington. when you wrote that tweet what you failed to add to it was, and i've become absolutely stinging rich today. >> it's great to see something we started five and a half years ago be valued at this price. but the most important thing for me is this baby is now actually
going to grow at an exponential rate. it's the partnership, the visions. >> i have one word for you, myspace. i used to work at news corporation a long time ago. when a big beast comes and swallows up this free, independent online blog-based site. it didn't work for them. it kind of loses its sexy cache, doesn't it? >> how are you going to keep ariana sexy? >> ariana is very sexy. >> i mean, in a business sense. >> the transaction is sexy because aol already underwent a large transition. a year and a half ago we basically spun out of time warner to be a separate public company. since then we've reenergized the culture, the brand. we've gotten rid of assets that
don't fit into the future vision. we've organically changed our traffic and interaction with advertisers and consume irs good you remain in most people's eyes, a big corporate internet beast. >> right. >> and a decade ago when you began this crisis, aol was the hottest thing on the internet, you were value add the $240 billion. catastrophic meltdown in your valuation. whereas in your case, you took something that was five years ago worth nothing, and you made it worth $315 million. you seem to be on different trajectories here. if i buy into the ariana huffington thing where it's cool, sexy, vibrant. the one thing it isn't is controlled by a corporate beast. then comes mr. corporate. >> i think we're the
anti-corporation right now, we're getting the best entrepreneurs in the world to come to this company. to pause for a minute, ariana is not just selling her company at this point. she represents what the future of the network looks like for social news. and she's the most successful female entrepreneur for internet news. >> the way the team thought of this, he said i want to buy "the huffington post." i want you to be editor in chief of "the huffington post." he was very clear from the beginning that this was not just buying the company. >> you both believe fundamentally this should remain a free site. is that the business mod snell. >> actually, both teams model and the huffington post model has been advertising based. >> and it will stay that way? my old boss is fundamentally of the belief that the way forward
for all these sites has to be you charge. that's why he's changing everything. everything is geared to monetizing it. >> it didn't work with the london times, did it? >> good point. the jury's still out i think -- >> the jury's in, it's been in for a long time. consumer habits have changed. people are used to getting their news for free. the only things people are willing to pay for on the inninger net specific financial information that they can monetize, but they're willing to pay for weird -- >> i think the model has been fuelled by free content and will be for some period of time. one of the things we see that's exciting in this, how do you create content, whether it's
free or paid for -- >> how much does it make at the moment, profit? >> the huffington post? >> yes. >> it made about 30 million in revenue last year. we're projected to make 60 this year. >> is any of that financial prof snit. >> yes, and there's profit, it's the first time that they reach the milestone and become profitable. >> it seems a big bet to me. you have rupert murdoch on one side, he basically would sit here listen to you two saying this can't work in the long term. you cannot make money on a site like this, which is based around advertising revenue only. >> the internet is about having an open model. right now we're saying it's free. in two years we could say it's a fee. it's possible to charge for in the future, what we're saying right now for trafficking, for
advertiser gain, it's our strategy. >> here's the deal, today you made $350 million. your share price fell 3% on the news which is probably not a dissimilar amount of cash. it looks like you've won and you've lost, haven't you? >> let me tell you something right now. if you believe in the future of the internet, aol's the best buy, if you don't, it's not. i think you're going to see a rotation of shareholders into our stock for people who have long term investment horizons. my guess is, a year from now we're going to look back on this conversation and this is going to be the most successful deal a year from now. >> your boardroom just got 20 times sexier. for that alone, i congratulate you. >> thank you. >> thank you both very much. my colleague anderson cooper has just got back from egypt. next, his take on what's happening there.
tomorrow night the twins who say that mark zuckerberg stole their idea. when you see mark zuckerberg or any guy, what do you actually think of him right now? honestly? >> there's so many things to think, but we sort of stay focused on what we have to do, which is to right the wrong. >> when you say that, you think monster, vile, greedy, horrible? >> we see a person who is where he is today absolutely because